The DataCAD Developer Network (DDN) is an online resource for information and support for DCAL® (DataCAD Applications Language) developers as well as anyone interested in creating fonts, toolbars, hatch patterns, or linetypes for use in DataCAD.

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#76717 by Mark Bell
Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:28 am
Thanks for pointing this out. Obviously the room contour function is not designed to work with open sided spaces, but nor should it freeze up when presented with one. The room contour functionality was written pretty early in the piece, but there didn't seem to be any interest in it when I asked for feedback on this forum a year ago, so I haven't spent any further time on it, and in all honesty I haven't tested the functionality in the macro for some time. Just had a quick look at it now and it does need a bit of work. Please let me know how useful you think it would be if it worked reliably with 2D walls.

Hi David,

The example I used was just a test to see whether the macro would "know" to self-close along the shortest path back to the start line where a gap was encountered. When I used to use 2D lines for walls, before smart walls came out, there would be times when small gaps would be present which would prevent the contour search from working. The file crash may indicate any size gap could cause a crash?

Using a contour search feature would e useful, if it's quick and accurate, as it would save the need to trace around line work. Smart walls can be saved into 2D line work so it's still a useful option to include.

Have you tested it on xrefs of plan drawings to see if it would pick up the corner points of walls, whether 2D or smart walls?
#76718 by Neil Blanchard
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:49 am
The permutations would be myriad, that's for sure. We don't use polylines anyway, so after converting the walls to lines, the walls can be stretched and edited. On the project I am starting now, I am trying out Smart walls, so I am tracing the Spaces polylines.
#76747 by dhs
Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:45 pm
Thanks for the feedback on this forum.
I have just uploaded a new version of the macro which can be downloaded from the page at dhsoftware.com.au/SpacesBeta.html.

Details of the changes made in this version are listed on the above page. I think I have addressed all the issues raised in this thread except for the grouping issue raised by Neil and the Room Contour issues raised by Mark. I hope to address both of those issues in the next build.

Thanks,
David H.
#76748 by dhs
Sun Jul 21, 2019 4:27 pm
On 12 July Neil wrote: When I Copy a space that I created by Group, the label is not copying.


Can you still reproduce this problem Neil? ... I had no problem reproducing it when you reported it, but the grouping seems to be working correctly for me now.

I am wondering if it was a problem with Dcad 21.02.00 as I note that Mark Bell reported a grouping problem with that version.
21.02.01 was released on 14th July (which is what I am testing with now) and I'm wondering if that may have addressed the issue (although it was not noted as a fix in MFM's release notes).

Could you please let me know if spaces created with 21.02.01 are still not grouped for you.

Thanks,
David H.
#76753 by jimgoodman
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:28 am
David: The refinements in the new Spaces macro are excellent.

My apologies if this has been asked and answered, but can the labels be automatically added to a different layer from the filled polylines?

I have working on a file that was started with the Space Maker macro. The conversion process is going well except that when trying to edit the details of the converted item in Spaces, DataCAD locks up when trying to close the dialogue box. This may be related to converted entities.
#76755 by Neil Blanchard
Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:59 pm
It is not happening, now.

For the record, I am using DataCAD 21.02.01.00 (SE) and Spaces v0.0.0.23.

dhs wrote:
On 12 July Neil wrote: When I Copy a space that I created by Group, the label is not copying.


Can you still reproduce this problem Neil? ... I had no problem reproducing it when you reported it, but the grouping seems to be working correctly for me now.

I am wondering if it was a problem with Dcad 21.02.00 as I note that Mark Bell reported a grouping problem with that version.
21.02.01 was released on 14th July (which is what I am testing with now) and I'm wondering if that may have addressed the issue (although it was not noted as a fix in MFM's release notes).

Could you please let me know if spaces created with 21.02.01 are still not grouped for you.

Thanks,
David H.
#76756 by Neil Blanchard
Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:08 pm
How do / Can I turn off the dots near the corners of the space polylines?

I have been able to use DataCAD's polyline editor on spaces without any problems. The only thing it doesn't do is automatically update the label, which is fine.

I will try to use the space editor in the macro.
#76762 by Neil Blanchard
Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:28 am
I am having unexpected things happen - labels are being moved a long way away from the drawing, and maybe related to this, PARTS of some labels are disappearing. All the information is still "there" in the macro editor. In most cases, I only still see the square footage.

I am trying to remember how Blocker worked - I think that the label and the boundary are treated as a single entity. I do know that I could hatch the areas (since they are a polyline), and I could then select it by the hatch pattern. This also helped seeing the overlap of spaces.

I am using Spaces for condo unit outlines, and also for rooms within each condo.
#76763 by Neil Blanchard
Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:34 am
I used the Edit Spaces / Move Side/Corner to move the side of a space, and it leaves the adjacent sides in the old place - essentially adding vertices. I tried to use Control-Z to Undo - and the whole Space disappeared. I used Control-Y and it came back.

Also, I selected the side with a left button click, and tried to center button snap it to one side of a Smart Wall (I have Perpendicular snap on) and it appears to place the side based on the left button select. In other words, it is using the random point I clicked to drag the side; rather than a point *right on* the side, like the polyline editor in the DataCAD Curves menu does.

When I move a corner with the same tool, it works as expected.
#76775 by dhs
Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:25 pm
Thanks for the feedback Neil. Please see my responses below:
I am having unexpected things happen - labels are being moved a long way away from the drawing, and maybe related to this, PARTS of some labels are disappearing. All the information is still "there" in the macro editor. In most cases, I only still see the square footage.
This is obviously a bug. Can you give me any further information about this? ... when does it happen? ... Is it happening when you edit the spaces (and if so, what edit function are you performing)?
Do the following steps fix the label: 1. Go to F9 Edit Spaces menu, 2. Select F5 Move/Rot Label, 3. Click on a space with missing label, 4. press F1 To Centroid.
If that does not fix it, do the following steps fix it: 1. Go to F0 Refresh/Update menu, 2. Select F5 Update One Lbl, 3. Click on a space with missing label.

I am trying to remember how Blocker worked - I think that the label and the boundary are treated as a single entity....
Yes, that is how Blocker worked, and it was also an option in Space Planner. It does not allow nearly as much flexibility with the label which is why I have not included it as an option in Spaces at this stage.

I used the Edit Spaces / Move Side/Corner to move the side of a space, and it leaves the adjacent sides in the old place - essentially adding vertices.
When you are actually moving the side the following options are available:
- F5 Stretch
- F6 Insert
You need to select 'F5 Stretch' so that it will not add vertices, but currently F6 Insert is selected by default and if you select F5 it is only remembered for the macro sesssion (if you exit the macro and then come back it reverts to Inserting). I can see that Stetch is probably the more common use, so I will change the initial default to Stretch, and will also ensure that the setting is remembered between macro uses for the next build.

it is using the random point I clicked to drag the side
. Yes, it uses the point you select. Not sure how easily I can change this, but will give it some thought.

use Control-Z to Undo - and the whole Space disappeared
Not sure I can do much about how Control-Z works as it is outside the macro, but the space is still there (it has just been 'undrawn') and a screen regen ('U' key) will redisplay it.

All in all, for the polyline edit functions I can see that some (most?) users will prefer to use the standard DataCAD functionality. There is overlap in functionality, but the macro offers some options that are not standard and omits of behaves slightly differently to some standard functions.
Using the standard DataCAD polyline edit functions is not a problem. The only difference is that if you use the standard functions then the label will not be updated until you invoke the macro after doing your edits.
If the macro is configured to create 2 polylines (wall surface and wall center) then using the standard edit functions will only update one line at a time. In this case you should always edit the wall surface polyline (and the other polyline will be updated to match it when you next invoke the macro).
#76817 by dhs
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:53 pm
Neil wrote: how do I resize the label text? I need it to all be larger, and a different color.

If you want to change all of the labels in the drawing then follow the following steps:
  1. Open the Settings form (S6 from the main menu)
  2. Enter the new required size for each line in the Height Setting
  3. Click the Colour button and select a new colour for each line as required
  4. Press the [Save & Exit] button
  5. Go to the Refesh/Update menu (F0 from the main menu)
  6. Select 'F3 Update All Lbl'
The above steps will update all labels in the drawing, and labels for any new spaces that you add will follow your new settings.

You could select the F4 or F5 options from the Refresh/Update menu to just change labels by area or individually (and the other labels would remain unchanged until you selected to update them with one of the options on this menu).

You could also change the colour or size of individual labels using the standard DataCAD change menu. Those changes would not cause any problem to the macro and would be effective until such time as you selected to Update them using one of the above options.
#76820 by dhs
Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:51 pm
I have just uploaded a new version (0.0.0.25) which can be downloaded from the SpacesBeta page on my website.
The fixes and changes for each version are also detailed on that page, but I have detailed a couple of the main changes that people have asked about below:

Jim asked: can the labels be automatically added to a different layer from the filled polylines?
This option is added in this version. You can choose to have labels added to the same layer as the outline (the current layer), to any other specific layer, or to a layer with the same name as the current layer but with an added prefix or suffix (so that if you change layers the label layer will also change based on the specified prefix or suffix ... a new layer will be automatically created if required).

Mark said: The example I used was just a test to see whether the macro would "know" to self-close along the shortest path back to the start line where a gap was encountered. When I used to use 2D lines for walls, before smart walls came out, there would be times when small gaps would be present which would prevent the contour search from working. The file crash may indicate any size gap could cause a crash?
I have refined the 'Room Contour' functionality a bit in this version. The original design catered for those 'small gaps' (up to the distance of 1 pixel), but the logic was getting into an endless loop when it encountered your open side.
It should now work with your open sided lines. Hopefully I have removed the possibility of a hang, but I am sure there are still circumstances where it may not perform as the user expects as it assumes quite strict rules for the outline. I'm not certain it can ever cater for all possibilities, but hopefully it will be useful.
The original intention was for a closed space but with the ability to skip over openings such as doors and windows. There are some parameters that control this and I had intended to allow the user to modify these, but overlooked that as I continued to develop the macro. As I am have run out of space for any more sensibly grouped buttons on the menu I have added the parameters on a small floating form that appears when you select this option (this form will stay on top but you don't need to close is as it automatically closes when you exit the functionality).
#76821 by dhs
Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:04 pm
Neil wrote: I used Refresh All, instead of Update All

Refresh All will update the text content in the labels if any of your spaces have changed. It will not change the text style (even if you have changed it outside the macro), and it will not change the data pattern. You should rarely (if ever) need to use it if you have enabled the 'Auto Recalc Labels' option (on the 'Processing Options' tab of the settings form ... should be enabled by default unless you have changed it).

Update All (and the other 'Update' options on the menu) will completely rebuild the labels using the current settings (both for text style and for the data pattern).

The latest version I have just updated does include quite a bit more information in the 'Quick Start Guide' section of the manual (section 2.2 covers the use of the Update options).

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