Ever wanted to know how to perform a specific operation? Ask the experts.
#78585 by seasdes
Sun Aug 16, 2020 11:36 pm
I often have problems with parts of drawings not displaying. I think that this is due to circular SelfXrefs and References. this is something that I have not managed to get my head around. :oops:

So I have two questions:
1. Is there a setting that warns you when you are creating a circular reference; and
2. What strategies do users employ to prevent circular references
#78590 by joshhuggins
Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:59 pm
Main things I do to avoid circular xrefs are;

1. Keep the main building drawing / model in a single main file as a single drawing / model.

2. I primarily only do SFR, so I use the single file method for all my plans with self xrefs and then xref in from a couple main drawings for things like my borders and typical notes & details.

3. If using multiple drawings for a larger multifamily, commercial or industrial project, I create a new xref for everything, I never use nesting. If I need something that could be nested, I just copy and paste the xref from the other drawing into my current drawing. It just keeps things simpler and the way Datacad works with it's memory usage for xrefs it works well and keeps the files moving quick for things like snapping and moving around. Forethought on how the xrefs are to be used and trying to keep things simple and straight forward helps a lot. Doing the single xref method helps to avoid confusion down the road when dependencies for nesting that stack on each other can be a bear to repath or redefine later if the project needs change. You can just open the drawing and repath/redefine as needed.

4. I normally only use xrefs to reference the building / model. I don't reference things like text and dimensions unless it for a enlarged plan which is just that, only enlarged. Using the idea that information should ideally only be located in the drawings once with out duplicated information being repeated, I don't xref plan notes, keynotes and dimensions. Trying to work around xrefs reusing the same text info over, tends to make things more complicated unless it's very straight forward.

There are other things that can be done for circular issues, but keeping things simple and really getting familiar with how xrefs work will help you understand how they should and should not be used for your specific work. Play with them and use them more and it will start to click. Just don't wait to try to figure them out for that project that was due yesterday. :wink: Do some simple practice drawings and setups and try to work things out without the overhead bulk of an actual project or a deadline.

Doing these things I can't recall the last time I have seen a circular xref message in one of my drawings, been years probably. Hope this helps. If you have specific questions come back and let us know, we'll get ya squared away. :D
#78593 by joshhuggins
Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:01 pm
99% sure that is the toggle to disable nesting globally. If that is left enabled, you can then control each individual xref's ability to display nested xrefs in the Reference Manager.

There are also two Dcadwin.ini file options to control the state of the Nesting menu button when you are in the process of inserting a new xref or self xref. Opening the C:\Datacad XX\dcadwin.ini file with a plaint text editor like Notepad, you can set the values below towards the bottom of the file in the [XREF] section to FALSE to have Nesting disabled by default when inserting a new xref/self xref, or TRUE to have nesting turned on by default (which I do not recommended myself :wink:).

Code: Select all[XREFs]
Nesting In Self-XRefs=FALSE
Nesting In XRefs=FALSE
#78596 by joshhuggins
Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:15 pm
Neil Blanchard wrote:
seasdes wrote:Hi Neil

Is this where you turn off Nesting?

ScreenShot00169.jpg


No, that is the option to show nested XRefs. The place to turn it off (per XRef) is in the Reference File Manager. You toggle it off, then click Apply; for each XRef.
Just to clarify a bit, if you uncheck that box, it's not just suppressing the display of nested xrefs that might have it enabled, nesting gets completely disabled for all files. Datacad unloads all previously loaded nested xref temp files for any open drawings, and ignores the state of the xref's nesting settings in the Reference Manager until that Display Nested Xrefs is re-enabled. So even if you have Nesting turned on for an individual xref in the Reference Manager, they still will not load into memory/temp files. That Program Prefs option should probably be re-worded to Enable Nested Xrefs.
#78597 by Neil Blanchard
Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:49 pm
Okay, that is sort of the opposite of how I understand things to work. But, however it works, we do have the ability to turn nesting on / off, and we have the ability to turn the *displaying* of nesting on / off.

The default when you insert an XRef, it has Nesting toggled on. And a majority of the time, for my use, I do not need nesting, so I try to remember to turn it off in the RFM. This speeds things up, and it avoids circular XRefs.

The irony is that for self-references (aka Self XRef) - they are circular by definition. Though I don't think it causes the notice, though?
#78600 by joshhuggins
Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:49 pm
Neil Blanchard wrote:The default when you insert an XRef, it has Nesting toggled on.
See my first post for the INI default insert option. ;)

Neil Blanchard wrote:The irony is that for self-references (aka Self XRef) - they are circular by definition. Though I don't think it causes the notice, though?
Self xrefs do not cause the notice when they are working normally, I think it's because they are referencing the $wp file vs the original file itself (if I remember Dave's explanation correctly, but it's been a few years back when he revised they way they work currently).

I have seen co-workers who have somehow had their self xrefs break and become normal xrefs and then cause circular reference warnings. What we did to fix them was repath them back to the original (self) AEC file and then they became working self xrefs again.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests

About DataCAD Forum

The DataCAD Forum is a FREE online community we provide to enhance your experience with DataCAD.

We hope you'll visit often to get answers, share ideas, and interact with other DataCAD users around the world.

DataCAD

Software for Architects Since 1984