Topic Title

Hi,

I'm looking for the simplest way to generate elevation views for windows with segmented arched transoms
and get a decent look.
I'm currently drawing in 2-D, and am struggling to get 45 deg. bay windows to look right in elevation view,
specifically the windows on the diagonal.
Many of these are "trimmed" in limestone, with limestone keys. So I'm wondering what the best approach for
drawing these is, do I draw these in 3-D, or is there an easier way?
Any input is appreciated.

Regards,

Woverine

I don't want this to sound harsh, but you would draw them like anything else. I'd use whatever method you use for the rest of your elevations. Most people I know use the floor plan to "pull" their lines from for their elevations. If it's very complicated detail work that has lots of curves and such I would probably omit the small details if possible. If you are better at 3D modeling then 2D drafting, then that might be the best approch for you, and then do a hidden line removal on the pieces you are having trouble with at the desired angle. Probably not the answer you were looking for, but just how I approch my elevations. Maybe someone else has a better insight into what your doing?

I know your problem. I had exactly the same thing with my first DataCad job for an outside outfit. "Draw them like anything else" is not the answer as DataCad ellipses were so useless and impossible to handle, they might as well not have provided them. I think the situation with trimming ellipses has improved over the years.

If you only need ONE circle in 45 degree elevation you can get the elevation easily.

1. draw a polygon with the width equal to the diameter of the circle and the height twice that.

2. draw an ellipse by snapping diagonally across the polygon.

3. trim as required.

I doubt this will help when a raft of ellipses are needed. So...
If you only use proper 3D once in your life, that time has now arrived.

This might help

1. Draw 3D arcs over the normal elevation. These will have to be at the right heights in Z. Use the glass as z=0. You may only need two heights, one the frame and one for the wall. Another option is to draw them on the same plane and position them on the plan later

2. take a left view and rotate vertical

3. take an ortho view and rotate 45 (position the curves on the plan now)

4. take a front view and save the image to a new layer.

This is a lot quicker to do than it sounds and the result is a set of kosher ellipses that you can integrate into your elevations. These images are actually made of lines that could be trimmed like any other line. I recall trimming is a problem with earlier versions of DCad but it seems easy now.

Hello:

There is an easier way: draw them in a normal elevation view; and then you can either make a symbol or do an enlargement with the X enlargement factor set to 0.707 -- which is 1/2 the square root of 2. If you make the symbol, then when you place it, use this same X-enlargement setting.

Doing it this way foreshortens the window to precisely the right proportion and the curve will also be right.

This is the method that I use. It takes a little longer but well worth the effort.

Pros: It is as accurate as your 2d drawing and when saved as a symbol does not have to be redrawn.

Cons: Exploding arcs causes them to become short 3D line segments and are no longer arcs. Adding the polygon will save headaches when hatching, but, there are no arced polygons and have to be constructed by adding vertices. You will need to convert the 3-D lines to 2d lines if you need to edit the window in the future.

GEEZ GUYS! I'M, NOT IMPRESSED. THAT'S 2D THINKING FOR A 3D SITUATION!!!

GEEZ GUYS! I'M, NOT IMPRESSED. THAT'S 2D THINKING FOR A 3D SITUATION!!!

Nick, you are absolutely correct! The question posed, "I'm currently drawing in 2-D, and am struggling to get 45 deg. bay windows to look right in elevation view, specifically the windows on the diagonal."

If the question was how to do this in 3d, the answer would have been different.

Best regards.

Does this pic come through
[/url]

It looks like it might!!
This is as accurate as your 2D material, and accurate in what you see.
The more complicated a window at 45 deg is, the more merited it is to do it in 3D. It sounds like you indeed have the complications, and they are all in relief. All the more reason for doing it properly.....
This is all a-propos l'anse du pannier discussion on the DBUG form a couple of years ago. (and if I had realised that, I would have used one of the 3D symbols I developed then....)

Wow, thanks to everyone who has responded to this. Exactly the feedback and advice I was hoping for.
I will "experiment" with the different approaches and see what shakes out to be the most expeditious method for me. Once I create the windows I'm still looking at detailing of the
brick or stone veneer and limestone/fieldstone arches/keys.
This is a pretty standard spec (arched bay units) for the homes I am drawing, but unfortunately there are enough differences from each that I'm forced to redraw; e.g. different window sizes, 60 deg. bay, etc. So I need to come up with a way to draw these in a way that doesn't entail spending 2 hours to get them to look "right". I do reuse elements from previous drawings when I can, but have never been satisfied with the look.

As I said, if you only do 3D for bay windows, it's worth it and it's a path to more 3D work. You can make them up as multi-layer symbols, including plans and elevations.
I have sold sets of 3D/2D window symbols and these include (normal!) elevations. I find that most people only use a few of them and stretch to fit. In the case of curved windows, they can be changed by 3d enlargement, rather than stretch. You can save elevation of the 3D windows and used them to identify piped symbols or access them directly for elevations in their own right.

The following is one model with a plan and elevation in one symbol. The entire arch would be on one layer even though it is two colours.


BTW. I apologise to all readers of this thread for the offensive wide picture I posted. Despite admonitions that posts cannot be edited, it is now clear that attached pictures can, and I have posted a replacement in a more sensible format.

No appologies to me, Nick. I guess, too for many people out there.

Your approach has clarified the way as someone should face this kind of chalenge.
Working in 3D at DataCAD is an award for all those who enjoy designing.

Thanks,
Miguel