Use this forum to ask questions about DataCAD 16 and DataCAD LT 16.
#63120 by David A. Giesselman
Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:27 pm
Close and reopen the LM.

Dave
#63127 by joshhuggins
Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:05 pm
I can confirm that if you sort by a header and then change a color it commits the new layer order. :( Should only commit if the 'Save new layer order' button is clicked or a layer(s) is dragged into a new position.
#63129 by REX PEET
Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:09 pm
NO! NO! and thrice NO! I am fully aware that I shall be howled down here - yet again. But I shall try. One lonely voice in the wilderness. Oft is the time that I select a GTV, enter in unto the Layer Manager and float all the "on" layers to the top. I then save the new layer order, close the Layer Manager and proceed to use the old layer menus to on and off layer as I work on the chosen GTV. Messing about with the order of layers over the years, has never once caused me any problems with printing or anything else for that matter.

What I would dearly, dearly love is a toggle, (an ini setting?) that would permit me to have the new layer order saved each and every time that I mess about with the layer order in the Layer Manager. Whether, I sort layers by colour, drag them about or sort them by onness or offness.
#63131 by Roger D
Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:45 am
the Save Layer Order Button in the lower left is there for your use.
#63137 by joshhuggins
Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:51 pm
REX PEET wrote:What I would dearly, dearly love is a toggle, (an ini setting?) that would permit me to have the new layer order saved each and every time that I mess about with the layer order in the Layer Manager. Whether, I sort layers by colour, drag them about or sort them by onness or offness.
I could see this being added as an option if it's not hard to add if that how some people work. I can see the logic in the work flow of this. Not how I would probably want to work but hey to each their own right is the Datacad way right?

I would prefer to get the last bit of the functionality from the layer menu into the layer manager and ditch the layer menu completely. Then your new ini option Rex could be for the layer manager to automatically move on layers to the top on the manager list when toggling GTV's ;)
#63163 by Nick Pyner
Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:13 pm
joshhuggins wrote:I would prefer to get the last bit of the functionality from the layer menu into the layer manager and ditch the layer menu completely.


Definitely not or, at most, optional only please. The layer menu is for routine operations, and the layer manager is for managing layers. There aren't that many of us running three screens and, if the manager replaced the menu, those with only two are likely to want DataCad to reorganise their screen layout every time they press the L key. Not likely to happen.
#63164 by REX PEET
Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:53 pm
It would be a shame if the Layer Menu disappeared. It is so easy now to have only one layer active (Alt-Q) or turn layers on or off (Alt-L). This is the reason that I need the layers of a GTV floated to the top, so that you need not endlessly ScrlFwrd to find a layer to on or off.

As Josh suggested, if every time you invoked a GTV, the relevant layers were mysteriously floated to the top, ( by some magical Datacad invocation) this would be fantastic. I would not then even have to go to the Layer Manager in order to do this. Many steps saved, less work and more production.
#63200 by joshhuggins
Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:51 pm
Nick Pyner wrote:optional only please.
Of course optional, for now. It would shell shock too many to ditch it completely all at once. I personally would like ditch the menu now by way of adding the last few existing layer features and future advancements into the manager. Trying to put future improvements into the menu system is only going to slow things down, because new features would have to be buried under Scroll Fwrd buttons & More... buttons. Microsoft suffered from this same type of issue. Before they came out with the Ribbon toolbar the dedicated a lot of time into researching users trying to accomplish tasks. The users selected were considered to be proficient in the Microsoft Office Suite. They used eye tracking software and user surveys to ask them about what they needed or perceived they needed to complete the tasks. Approx. 80% of the feature / tool request from users already existed within the program, but were lost within the menu structure. Exposing commands over a greater graphical area helps. The ribbon is far from a perfect system, but the idea behind it has definitely increased my exposure to features with in the program and makes things more accessible. The menu structure has served very well for it's intended purpose, but was designed around 30 year old OS constraints. How many times do we right click in a day to get in and out of menus? Their has to be room for improvement and growth in every aspect of the program or eventually it will die. Maybe the answer is in expanding the current menu system or upgrading it somehow and make it more dynamically smart like the context toolbar? All I know is in it's present state, it is starting to limit program growth & speed.

Nick Pyner wrote:The layer menu is for routine operations, and the layer manager is for managing layers.
Hmmm, if you mean routine operations as in everyday tasks, I'd say this statement is incorrect since all the major commands are in the layer manager. If you mean as in the ability to program routines via the F#'s then I'd say that's correct and another reason why the menu as it exists should stick around awhile.

Nick Pyner wrote:There aren't that many of us running three screens and, if the manager replaced the menu, those with only two are likely to want DataCad to reorganise their screen layout every time they press the L key. Not likely to happen.
I only run two monitors, albeit widescreen, and layer manager is far from taking up to much space. The cost for a pair of widescreen monitors is far from restrictive, and should be at the top of any serious caders investment list. Image

REX PEET wrote:It is so easy now to have only one layer active (Alt-Q) or turn layers on or off (Alt-L).
No need for that to change.

REX PEET wrote:so that you need not endlessly ScrlFwrd to find a layer to on or off.
Layer manager can help alleviate that pain now. I can see 45 layers at a time vs. 15 from the menu, but adding the feature of having the layer list auto sort on layers to the top while switching GTV's still gets my vote for those who may work as you do.
#63202 by REX PEET
Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:16 pm
....... but adding the feature of having the layer list auto sort on layers to the top while switching GTV's still gets my vote for those who may work as you do.

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! Auto sort - WOW
#68411 by joshhuggins
Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:24 pm
joshhuggins wrote:.... it commits the new layer order. :( Should only commit if the 'Save new layer order' button is clicked or a layer(s) is dragged into a new position.
Man this almost bit me in the butt big time today. Please make the layer manager only commit the revised order if layer orders are dragged or the Save new layer order button is clicked. At least an option to work this way.
#68413 by Neil Blanchard
Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:50 am
joshhuggins wrote:
joshhuggins wrote:.... it commits the new layer order. :( Should only commit if the 'Save new layer order' button is clicked or a layer(s) is dragged into a new position.
Man this almost bit me in the butt big time today. Please make the layer manager only commit the revised order if layer orders are dragged or the Save new layer order button is clicked. At least an option to work this way.


Hear, hear! This gets my enthusiastic second!

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