Topic Title

Hi all,

Wondering if anyone knows of a software or cloud server that will allow working on CAD files from remote locations. I would like to work with my co-worker on a set of drawing files which have subfolders and X-Refs. We are both working from two different locations. Looking to mimic what we would normally do in our office using office server.

Thanks in advance.

Giuseppe

Jim Goodman has been perfecting this for quite a few years - hopefully he will chime in soon on how he makes it all work.

We ran into this same problem. Our solution was to create VHDs on the individual home computers that mimic the file structure of the work server then download the file via ftp. work on it and then reupload it (after backing up what is on the server). You just have to maintain constant communication with your coworker so you know who is working in which file.

We thought about working straight from the files via a file sync system but it just opens up to many possibilities for user error that would overwrite important files. Theoretically though you could set up any file sync service to download/upload any file changes from a specific directory on both the server and your home computer and your coworkers computer. Then work like normal but there is a time difference between when you open a file and when that file gets noticed and backedup that you are inside it.

Another solution would be to set up a VPN so you just go straight into your work network and create the network drive on your home computer. But that has some significant security issues.

Thanks for your info.

I wonder if there is a Simplistic way to keep files and file structure on Dropbox or similar service. Is it possible to work on files that are on Dropbox?

Hope to hear more from forum members.

Thanks all

I use Google Drive. My hard disk is mirrored on the Google Drive. All files are there as well as on my workstation HDD.
If I am somewhere else I download from Google Drive to my local machine. When done, send it back up to the Google Drive.
Upon return to office it is updated on the office workstation. During normal days I turn off the Backup and Sync feature of
Google Drive so I am not backing up while working. I update while at lunch and at the end of the day.

I think this would be a bit tricky with multiple people accessing a file.

Jim Goodman has been perfecting this for quite a few years - hopefully he will chime in soon on how he makes it all work.

Alan is correct, our office has been working with a decentralized model since April of 2011. (I just realized that April 30 marks our 10th anniversary with Dropbox)

Our current team consists of 5 collaborators, all of which are in different physical locations - Capistrano Beach, San Clemente, Santa Ana, Costa Mesa and Sacramento California, Battle Creek, Michigan and Salt Lake, City, Utah.

We use Microsoft Teams, which is part of Office 365, as our primary communication tool. We also use Uberconference and Zoom for client and consultant meetings.

We use Dropbox Business Advanced as our office file server. We evaluated many options both free and paid, before settling on Dropbox. The main advantage of using Dropbox as a server is that there are no physical servers or VPNs to purchase and maintain.

Dropbox also maintains complete version history and all deleted files, so it eliminates the need for a separate backup scheme. I do maintain a separate, offline backup of our Dropbox server using Karin’s Replicator just in case of a Dropbox meltdown.

By far the biggest challenge is maintaining DataCAD’ s requirement for absolute paths for things like symbols, reference files, etc. Everyone on the team has to have their Dropbox account located on a drive with precisely the same path; ie K:\Dropbox (JGAIA). This gets a bit tricky for collaborators that have their own Dropbox accounts, but there are ways to make this work as well.

This method also works if you like to work in various locations. I spend July of every year at a Lake in Northern California and this setup allows me to be away from HQ for extended periods of time.

There may be other, less complicated and less expensive options for smaller teams like One Drive, Google Drive, etc. but

I realize that this outline will generate a whole list of questions, which I will try to answer as time permits. Hopefully, there will be some good suggestions on how we can refine our model as well.

Life is better on the cloud than in the digital dumps.

Thank you Jim and thank you all for your replies.
Very informative.

Jim,

Can more than one person have access and sign into the same drop box account? In my case, I’m looking to have just one other person, maybe two, use drop box as a server. Also, I only have one project that I want to start with. So I was hoping to see if I can make it work first for free. I think Drop Box offers 5 Gigs of space for free.

Looking forward to more discussion.

Thanks in advance.

Yes you can, but there can only be one account on each computer. Dropbox is very particular about the name of the Dropbox folder that it creates on each computer.
The various Dropbox plans have difference capabilities for things like linking personal accounts, etc., so check their website.
The Dropbox website also has a very good support section that will answer most questions. Be sure to follow their guidelines regarding managing files, etc.

Jim, do you and people you collaborate with, all have your own individual drop box accounts?
Also, if someone is working on a file, is there a possibility that someone else may open the same file and overwrite what the other person is working on?

Have you had any experience with trying the same thing using OneDrive?

Thanks

Like Jim's office scenario, we operate a 'virtual office' and first trialed remote work about 5-6 years ago when a staff member in my previous practice had to relocate overseas. It's now used with "staff" around the country and works really well.

Dropbox is used primarily for file sharing and each member creates their own free account to upload files and email the download links along with any message or other written information as part of a standard email. This allows email file sizes to be kept to a minimum as only the download link is sent and they're also less likely to get caught up in virus filters as they don't include attachments. It also maintains a better level of QA as all the files (AEC, DLF, PAK, PDF, photos, renders, reports etc.) can be stored in the Dropbox project folders as a secondary backup to what each person has on their own PC. Selected download files/links can also be emailed to clients, consultants contractors and others involved in a project as required without the need to attach and send emails to different groups but with the same or similar information. I can also access this information if I'm out of the office.

The design and coordination is all done in my office and I initially send out a PAK file and PDF set to get the other's started as this allows each user to 'rebuild' the file and all attachments (xrefs, images etc.) at their end. After they have the starting file which would include the site survey file(s) so everyone is working from the same location, most subsequent files I send out are individual (DLF) or group layer files (Layerset - includes MSP and/or GTV). This eliminates any accidental overwriting of the master file(s) which are at my end with each user working on various portions of the project that I require them to work on - building sections, RCP's, 3D modelling, construction details etc. If I've asked a member to progress on say a building section using layers (a, b, c etc.) then I lock those layers at my end so I know not to do any work on them until I receive the updated layers from the other user(s). This eliminates work being overwritten.

They then email back a dropbox link of their DLF's (zipped) which I then place into a folder for the particular member, then do a drawing file purge on my current master file and then work on the purged file (numerical or alphabetical revision depending on SD or CD phase) . This allows a progressive series of master files which become backups in their own right. I then toggle to the first layer they have sent through and using Layer/Import/Replace, the layer is automatically updated with their work. I then toggle to the next layer they sent through and repeat until all the layers have been replaced with the newer drawing info they've emailed me. Usually they work on about half a dozen layers at a time with the updating only taking a few minutes. DataCAD also allows layers to be viewed prior to loading so this can sometimes be a useful feature to pre-check work before importing.

The benefit of this method is, it isn't essential they replicate the exact file structure I have at my end. I've 3 hard disk's in my workstation and most other's only have 1 or 2 so the drive letters don't match. I do stipulate the print drivers, pen tables, default files and the latest DataCAD version etc. are all the same but short of them buying extra hardware to mimic my system setup, the exchange of layers has proven to be an efficient and simple method of updating drawings allowing the project lead to maintain the master DataCAD files, including xrefs etc., essentially allowing one person to drive the project with the support team providing a continual supply of updates (layers) as the project advances. The outgoing emails with download links also become a record of work I request to be done and helps me focus on what is needed as I prepare the emails and I've found gives clear instruction to each member on what they need to work on. On one project some years ago, I'd be sending out the email just before COB, then arrive to the office in the morning with a reply email and dropbox links from the member who was on the other side of the world, essentially turning the process into a 24 hour workflow.

There's other techniques that have been applied but the exchange of layers using DataCAD's automatic import/replace feature keeps everything simple and there is an ongoing archive of layers from each user that are available if I accidentally erase something and only discover it much later on.

Jim, do you and people you collaborate with, all have your own individual drop box accounts?
Also, if someone is working on a file, is there a possibility that someone else may open the same file and overwrite what the other person is working on?

Have you had any experience with trying the same thing using OneDrive?

Thanks

You can but you need to use Mark Bell's method. If you use our method, everyone has to have an identical path for all the files in order for the symbol and reference files to remain active.

Dropbox just recently added a file locking feature that we are testing. To avoid having multiple users openings a file at the same time, we have been "checking out" files by sending an e-mail or MS Teams message letting everyone know that we have a file open, and another when it is closed.

I looked at One Drive, Google Docs, Citrix, and several others, none of which worked as well as Dropbox for our work flow.

Our goal has been to replicate a typical office server and provide an automated system so everyone on the team has access to the most current version of the files at all times. We also store all DataCAD defaults, symbols, fonts, and other assets on the Dropbox account so they are always available to the entire team. The disadvantage is the need for everyone to have Dropbox setup on exactly the same path, so we do this with a multi-user Dropbox account, which runs about $1,200 per year for 5 users.

Mark's approach is also an excellent way to manage this and does not require an expensive Dropbox plan. Mark can comment, but I suspect his method would work on the other cloud services as well.

As a sidebar, we have worked on and off on various workarounds to manage the absolute path issue, none of which have worked out.

I have watched a few YouTube videos on the subject. I see from the videos that drop box is being used with a downloaded program which than creates a folder on your PC where you physically work on the files. Once you save your work it’s synced back up with the files in the cloud. So your not actually working of the files that are in the cloud. I assume this is how everyone does it since it seems that working through an internet connection would be very slow if not impossible.

Thank you all for the responses.
This has been a great help.

Hi Jim, Giuseppe ,

When we originally investigated sending large files as an alternative to email attachments (mid-late 2000's?) we used Sendspace which is/was free, but included a lot of advertisements which didn't look all that professional when sending to clients so Dropbox was used instead. It used to have an offer of extra storage space for other users you introduced to Dropbox which allowed you to increase the storage by several GB. Either way, it's still a flexible tool to use and as Jim mentioned, in our setup doesn't require a common file path to be created for the transfer of drawing info to work as the master DataCAD file(s) reside on the local PC for the person running the project (myself in my situation). There's pluses and minuses with DB, at times it's difficult to upload large files due to the amount of users using it and the programmers keep playing with it so that each update it loses the simplicity it started out with. I'm sure if you did a web search there will be other similar software available if you wanted something different to use. The main consideration is your cash flow and keeping costs manageable so using a free service to upload, store and share info with others using your own email with a DB link inserted, is an efficient way to work. In the event the system crashed or is offline, you still have the original files on your own and other member PC's allowing you to quickly switch to another file sharing system and continue working. Microsoft and Google have something similar too.

Ideally, you need to think through how you intend to work with the other user(s) and who is going to hold the master drawing file(s). If you work backwards, the intent is to issue PDF drawing sets and DWG export files to sub consultants and others in the delivery chain. That means someone will need a master file(s) to create the Drawing Register and MSP sheets for the project, which can be batch printed and merged from the one DataCAD file. Having the project lead take care of this along with key design issues frees up the others to focus on the main drawing resolution/documentation etc. and we've found reduces errors and doubling up.

In my last office we had a central NAS server where DLF's and other DataCAD files could be saved allowing others to access them and update their secondary drawing files before re-saving their amended DLF's so I could Layer/Import/Replace and keep the workflow moving along.

The initial setup is important - all remote users will need a copy of the main user essential files on their PC (fonts, default files, custom line types, pen tables, printer drivers etc.). These folders can all be zipped and DB to them. The same applies for any specific Symbol folders which can also be shared with the team but depending how you work may not be critical as manufacturer/supplier CAD files can be imported and saved as a symbol in unique situations where they don't have one on their system. We do all our work using smart entities and given DataCAD automatically carries this information inside the main file issued at the start, similar to custom line types, hatching etc., that information doesn't have to be DB but it's worth sending through so everyone has access to the same data from within each DataCAD setup. As mentioned earlier, it's not always possible for each user to mimic exactly the full file paths on my system. It only takes a minute or so to ctrl-right click and open the RFM to re-path xref/self-xref links at their end, or inserted images etc. so they can see what I see on my system and continue working. The important information are the layers. I also request they send through their AEC file(s) periodically so I can check the hours worked using the Drawing Info from each file.

By sending groups of DLF's I can split up a project and say have people working on floors above the one I'm currently on to advance them for when I move up the building. It also works with multiple buildings on a site and various parts within a single building. Engineer's and surveyor's drawings are first opened in a blank DataCAD drawing and saved, then xrefed into the master file with each DWG-to-AEC file included along with the xref DLF being sent to each user. When I receive amended sub-consultant updates I simply update the xref and reissue the DWG-to-AEC (xref) and DLF. Once I've issued information, other users must not move or re-position drawing info within a file as a common reference point is established with the original file(s) sent out at the start. eg. don't move a building section as it will also move when I import the DLF at my end! I provide sheet layouts so they know where they are working and these are linked to GTV's and MSP's iin the master file(s). What we've also done in the past is to self xref 'background' info so users can't accidentally move stuff they shouldn't. Locking layers for info that is 'fixed' is also a good way to reduce errors. A dot point summary of what each user is to work on is included in the outgoing email with Dropbox links.

We used to sync our DB folders but that takes time and if you deleted a file/folder on your PC it was also deleted in the DB folders which meant there was no offsite backup. We no longer use synced folders and only uploaded, create a Dropbox download link, and insert the link in emails for sharing. Keep it simple.

I have not actually tried this, but if I were to try setting something up, for us, I would probably give OneDrive a shot since it comes with 1TB of storage with our Microsoft 365 subscription. I would setup a folder within OneDrive and share it on my local machine, and then map that to duplicate an existing drive setup. If your existing files and paths are via a UNC path (ie; \\server\datacadfiles\jobs)then that might take a bit more to setup to mimic but mapped drive letters should work fairly well and I think Datacad would play nice that way with .U$R files.