Topic Title

I need to do some nice modeling for a client. I've learned the basics of Kerkythea, but I seem to have lost the ability to paint surfaces with a texture. I know I could do it previously, so maybe that function has been removed from the free version. However, I would also like to animate objects within the model, like opening a door to enter a room. I could do that with VR. I don't see that ability in Kerkythea. I don't know if the paid version (Thea) will do that.
What was the last version of DataCAD that included VR? What is the chance that I could load it into Windows8 and have it work properly? I have old disks back to DataCAD v7. Will it let me load VR as a stand-alone?

Hi Dwight,

Just my personal take...if VR was that good of a piece of software wouldn't it still be around today?

I started out with Kerkythea and have always used a Sketchup plug in with working with an advanced rendering engine so I'm not much help on a DC to Kerky workflow. I'm pretty certain Thea can do all you ask and more...if you like Kerky you will love Thea. As we previously discussed you may be looking at the use of a render farm to produce your images or an investment in a new rig to run them yourself.

Here's some tutorials that will hopefully answer your questions: http://www.thearender.com/cms/index.php ... tudio.html

Robert

What was the last version of DataCAD that included VR? What is the chance that I could load it into Windows8 and have it work properly? I have old disks back to DataCAD v7. Will it let me load VR as a stand-alone?

Fortunately, all of the VR files can be just copied over from a working installation ... Then start using it. The few files and folders for VR doesn't even need to be "installed" to work. Surely, you have an older computer sitting around that has those files.

Don't know about Win8 ... It opens up on Win7, but I have not done anything with it since I copied the files to Win7, so couldn't tell you if it works properly.

We are currently testing the following demo's for animation:
http://lumion3d.com/

http://artlantis.uk.com/S_anim.htm
I've looked at some impressive animations from Artlantis that include 3D animated objects. The price tag is a little steep for my taste.

Robert

Hi Dwight,

Just my personal take...if VR was that good of a piece of software wouldn't it still be around today?

Robert

No, it is not around anymore because another graphics company bought it and took what they wanted out of it and threw the rest away. If I remember correctly the company that bought it was Micrografx. I don't think they're around anymore either, maybe because of mismanagement.

[Mark F. Madura]

I'm pretty sure Mark Bell still uses Visual Reality.

As I recall, you can not save to an NTFS partition so the work-around is to save to a FAT32 flash drive.

Visual Software was founded in 1991 and was acquired by Micrografx in 1996 via a stock transaction valued at around $11 million.

Micrografx was acquired by Corel in late 2001; also in a stock swap valued around $32 million.

What was the last version of DataCAD that included VR? What is the chance that I could load it into Windows8 and have it work properly? I have old disks back to DataCAD v7. Will it let me load VR as a stand-alone?

Visual Reality always was a stand-alone programme. The only thing it shared with DataCad was the cardboard box. It came with V8, 8.5 and V9. Possibly V10 as well, but that was about the time of the DCPlus debacle, and those other renderers were getting into the act.

As Mark says, you need to run it in a FAT32 partition. Note that I recall this is in order to save the work. It will run on NTFS. Other than that, I get the impression that VR works better on modern computers than it did when it was new, and I still use it. I don't know about Winows 8 but, if you have VR2, the obvious thing to to do is try it. Steve has it opening on W7 and that should suggests it's OK.

I honestly don't remember VR but since I have every disk since V7 I'll take a look. Might be a few gems I can take from it.

Robert

I'm pretty sure Mark Bell still uses Visual Reality.

Visual Software was founded in 1991 and was acquired by Micrografx in 1996 via a stock transaction valued at around $11 million.

Micrografx was acquired by Corel in late 2001; also in a stock swap valued around $32 million.

At the risk of channeling Jim Horecka.....

Micrografx published one of the first Windows based paint (Picture Publisher) and illustration (Designer) programs back in the late 80's which I used on my Windows 3.1 AST computer. These programs actually introduced features to the Windows platform before Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator did - the ability to composite bitmap images being one of the most notable. Picture Publisher and Designer were in direct competition with Corel products and, as Mark notes, ultimately bought out Micrografx. The Micrografx products are still updated and published by Corel and are still part of my software arsenal. I have Photoshop and Illustrator, but find the learning curve to be a bit steep for occasional use.

The Visual Reality rendering software actually started life as a plastic surgery simulation tool. This is why the rendering files use the .eye suffix. I purchased my first copy of VR directly from Visual Realty at their San Fernando Valley offices about 3 days after the big Northridge Earthquake in 1994. Their offices were in shambles and I remember wiping the dust off the box after they dug it out of a pile of rubble in their stockroom. The next week was one of the longest of my life as I tried to learn the software and produce finished renderings for a project - modeled in DataCAD of course.

Having used VR extensively in the past, I have to say that it was a real bear to control. I subsequently moved on to Autodesk Viz (a relatively low cost subset of 3ds Max which is no longer offered by the Draconian Dragons at Autodesk) and now to Sketchup. I think the version of O2C included with DataCAD is actually more powerful and useful than VR.

It sounds like Dwight has experience with VR so it probably makes sense to try to keep on using it. It may be better to spend the effort learning Sketchup however. After all, I don't think VR has been updated in close to 20 years.

Having used VR extensively in the past, I have to say that it was a real bear to control. I subsequently moved on to Autodesk Viz (a relatively low cost subset of 3ds Max which is no longer offered by the Draconian Dragons at Autodesk) and now to Sketchup. I think the version of O2C included with DataCAD is actually more powerful and useful than VR.

It sounds like Dwight has experience with VR so it probably makes sense to try to keep on using it. It may be better to spend the effort learning Sketchup however. After all, I don't think VR has been updated in close to 20 years.[/quote]


Jim,

I would be really interesting in hearing about your typical workflow using DataCAD, Sketchup and third party advanced rendering engines. Possibly this is should be a new thread?
I'm currently on V12 and satisfied with how I handle my SU to DC workflow but am open to learning from others. Possibly V15 does a superior job of handling SKP files and I've been missing out.

Robert

Robert:

I am not doing too much modeling or rendering at this time, but I have been keeping notes on the process of exporting models from DataCAD to Sketchup which I plan on sharing at some point in the future. Your work is quite good, so I suspect I could learn more from you than visa-versa.

My only experience with rendering DataCAD models in Sketchup has been with V15. A quick search through the Revision History indicates that support for Sketchup 8 would be one good reason to upgrade to 15, not to mention the support it will provide for ongoing development of DataCAD. I would highly recommend the upgrade to take advanatage of the many other significant upgrades to the program since V12.

Further to this, I am just getting back into harness for a montage job. I thought it might be a nice one as, for the first time ever, I was getting a complete model. I should have known better........

The model came in from AutoCad at 87Mb and DataCad was groaning under the strain. Things could only get worse, so I went down the hill and bought Windows 8. This was with a view to fully using the 4Gb I have and eventually getting more. Big mistake........

For the model, I would have been better off making my own from the 2D. I stripped out the interior and rebuilt most of the exterior, thereby saving tens of thousands of polygons.

Now to try Renderise.

Good News. It will open OK in Windows 8.

Bad news. It wouldn't open my model. To my horror, I found that my DXF was 177Mb. I already knew where the villains were. They were 6 large perforated metal screens that I had made, which were already making life hard for O2C. Omitting them gave me an 11Mb model.

Good news. This loads into VR2 OK and saves into D:\DataCad, which is FAT32. VR is actually on E: , which is NTFS. It's the saving where the problem lies. An 11Mb model ought to be big enough for most mortals and I would put the loading problems down to the computer rather than VR2.

I have seen Roberts Scott's stuff and I doubt there would be much value in going back to VR, but it costs nothing to try. I couldn't recommend VR2 to anybody. I just don't have the motivation to change.

I actually prefer to use Simply 3D, and I think it is a tragedy that Micrografx changed direction and abandoned it. The huge advantage of VR2 is that you can make rectification and repairs on the fly, layer by layer out of DataCad. Any stuff-up in S3D means you have to start over. This is the first thing I would check with a new renderer. The other great thing about VR2 is the proper moving camera animation facility, but I have no idea how modern renderers compare in that area.

Now to come up with a solution for the screen - and get rid of windows 8.............

[Mark F. Madura]

For perforated metal, you probably want to use a bitmap and render the 'holes' transparently.

Yes, I locked into a DataCad solution, but that flashed across my mind while I was out riding my bike this afternoon. I had already made up new screens with horiz and vertical slats. This reduced the DXF just for the screens from 160Mb to 560k. The model is now 11.5 Mb and both o2c and RL are a lot happier. As am I, and W8 will be retired, though I will rather miss the snipping tool.

I have just worked out how to do the bitmap. Fortunately, I still have the original screens. I will restore the void polygons, plot in two colours to pdf, and use that to make a bitmap for RL.

Great idea on the transparent holes, Mark.
Nick, I think the camera positioning is much easier in Kerky than in VR. I bought Thea and am still in the learning curve there. I'm hoping it will do better/faster animations than Kerky does. The basic license includes two additional nodes, so I can join a couple of other computers into the rendering function.