Topic Title

I'm looking for opinions on how y'all design. I do not have SU but am considering purchasing it, partly because the o2c objects in Dcad aren't great and the SU models I've viewed seem to look quite a bit better than o2c models.
Is it easier to design in Dcad then import to SU? Or vice versa? How easy is it to go back and forth making changes? Or have o2c objects improved in recent upgrades?
Thx!

What is your end goal? 2D CD's built from 3D components? 3D models for visualization, 3D models for construction? Any Sketchup/Datacad model can be imported to/from Sketchup/Datacad.

Hi Ted,

We do everything directly in DataCAD - concept, DA and presentation drawings, (2D, 3D and hybrid smart parametric) through to construction drawings. DataCAD already allows direct import of Sketchup and other 3D formats. We often import SKP files off Trimble's free 3D Warehouse site to include in our 3D models for rendering without the need to buy Sketchup. FYI, there are more O2C models available from O2C Germany's web site though we find the 3D Warehouse site offers more variety.

I use DCAD for all drawing work, both 2D and 3D. I don't take the time to worry about 3D elements when I am cranking along to get a set of construction docs done. Too time consuming, not necessary, and not getting paid for that extra work.

If I need to do a rendering of the project's design, I do separate layers in DCAD to create the 3D model (that I am then getting paid to do). I then export to a DXF file and then import into SU Pro. The way I do things, I just found the DXF export and then import process works better for me than using DWG export-import or exporting from DCAD directly into SU.

I do all of the rendering and materials, and entourage insertion in SU. I then use a plug-in called Render[N]2 to give the final rendering images a more realistic look. I am happy enough with the finished results (see below for a couple of examples).

So David what process do you use to create your 3D model?

Dan

What is your end goal? 2D CD's built from 3D components? 3D models for visualization, 3D models for construction? Any Sketchup/Datacad model can be imported to/from Sketchup/Datacad.

Josh, I create 3D models for most of my projects using o2c, and depending on the fee will either do something simple or dress it up, mainly for the exterior views. Then I'll send the o2c file to clients for them to manipulate and view (interior walk-thru's seem trickier to manipulate). For simpler projects I'll use some 3D layers to also create CD's; if the project is more complex I often create separate 2D layers for CD's. Perhaps that's a doubling work a bit.....

Ted - you may want to contact one of our UK users (Clayton Taylor) to see how he does things. I've seen one of his submissions and it was very detailed, very clear, and very well done. I believe he may have utilized some out-to-SU or out-to-SU-and-back-to-DC translations to make them happen.

Hi Ted,

We do everything directly in DataCAD - concept, DA and presentation drawings, (2D, 3D and hybrid smart parametric) through to construction drawings. DataCAD already allows direct import of Sketchup and other 3D formats. We often import SKP files off Trimble's free 3D Warehouse site to include in our 3D models for rendering without the need to buy Sketchup. FYI, there are more O2C models available from O2C Germany's web site though we find the 3D Warehouse site offers more variety.

Thanks Mark, that's helpful. I'll check Trimble's 3D Warehouse and o2c Germany.

I use DCAD for all drawing work, both 2D and 3D. I don't take the time to worry about 3D elements when I am cranking along to get a set of construction docs done. Too time consuming, not necessary, and not getting paid for that extra work.

If I need to do a rendering of the project's design, I do separate layers in DCAD to create the 3D model (that I am then getting paid to do). I then export to a DXF file and then import into SU Pro. The way I do things, I just found the DXF export and then import process works better for me than using DWG export-import or exporting from DCAD directly into SU.

I do all of the rendering and materials, and entourage insertion in SU. I then use a plug-in called Render[N]2 to give the final rendering images a more realistic look. I am happy enough with the finished results (see below for a couple of examples).

Thanks David, good input. And nice renderings.

Sorry Ted I didn't mean to interrupt your thread. How are you creating your 3D models? Do you use smart entities for the walls and fill in gables and create the roof with slabs? Most of our models are exterior views as well but until recently I was using the tilt-up slab method. I am curious to see how everyone else creates models to see if there is a better way than the way I am doing it.
We don't have Sketchup so all our work is done in DataCAD which right now works for me. Thanks
Dan

My typical workflow is to produce accurate, flat 2d drawings in DC which I export via DWG to Sketchup.
3D models are produced from exported 2d DWG files and advanced renderings produced in Thea Render. I will often create 2d elevations in SU that I bring back into Datacad for con docs.

Plenty examples at the links under my signature.

Robert

https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottresi ... ign/albums

For my small one-man Architectural practice, I've been a Datacad power-user for decades, and also used Sketch-up Pro with Layout almost since it came out. If you get Sketch-up, definitely get the Pro-version with Layout.

For my needs, I use Sketch-up for any 3d-work or analysis. To my everlasting shame **hangs head**, I've never gotten my head wrapped around Datacad's 3D interface, I've always used Sketch-up. In my mostly residential practice, I haven't used Datacad to draw an elevation from scratch in over 10-years. I usually create the model in Sketch-up and import it as a flat 2D image (.dwg) into Datacad for Datacad construction drawings. Bldg. sections I prefer to create from scratch in Datacad. I've had very mixed-results with Datacad floor-plans into Datacad 3D models, usually I don;t bother and start-over in SU for an interior visualization. (I draw floor-plans in 2D-only...)

Recently I've been preparing construction documents for residential ground-mount and roof-mount photo-voltaic installations. Using Bing, Google-Earth and the contractor's measurements I first create a 3D model of the home and the proposed PV layout on the roof. The construction drawings I now create entirely in SU-Pro Layout and just use Dacad for the technical detailing. (Either to be plotted to .pdf from Datacad, or plotted as .jpg and inserted directly into Layout to-scale.) One reason is that when the inevitable 'as-built' revisions come-in from the field, I can just correct the 3d-model in Sketch-up -- and the construction drawings' line-work automatically revises-itself, just requiring a minimal amount of manually adjusting of notes or views. Then it can be re-plotted to .pdf for paper or electronic distribution. (Everything that leaves my office is on 8-1/2x11" or 11x17" paper. I haven't used a 36x24" sheet in years...)

Sketch-up and Layout are also very handy for kitchens and bathrooms for both design and visualizations. There's a method using Photoshop or PS Elements to color-render interiors and exteriors that approximates watercolor entourage or old-style markers. I'm not a fan of 'photo-realism' in presentations, I want some "art and technique" to be apparent; the Architect's skill, training and talent to bleed-through, I'm charged enough...LOL. (Or trying to...)

Originally I got SU originally back in the 1990s to do mass-studies and shadow analyis. It was also handy for large-scale townhouse community building cluster-massings and roof-shaping. The ability to create a 3D model in-perspective with correct or plausible shadows made presentations to "civilian" clients not used to 'flat' construction drawings easier. People see buildings in-perspective in the real-world...

I do find that when it time to get really-detailed and accurate, it's time to shift-over to Datacad. Sketch-up and Layout have their limitations for complexity and granularity. One thing that I've found is it's easier to work in Sketch-up and Layout in purely black-and-white with generous overshoots and bold edge-profiles in-perspective like your sketching with a pencil or a design-pen. (I'm from the old-school of working with a pen and a roll of tracing yellow paper...treat as pencil on a napkin, that's how it was designed.) And remember that groups and components are critical in Sketch-up, not the layers.

If you're going to use Sketch-up and Layout, definitely invest in several good books on them, and attend a seminar or two if possible. And there are an increasing number of useful You-Tube vids (amongst the rabble of useless drivel) about SU and Layout

My typical workflow is to produce accurate, flat 2d drawings in DC which I export via DWG to Sketchup.
3D models are produced from exported 2d DWG files and advanced renderings produced in Thea Render. I will often create 2d elevations in SU that I bring back into Datacad for con docs.

Plenty examples at the links under my signature.

Robert

https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottresi ... ign/albums

Robert:

I am constantly humbled by what you are able to accomplish using DataCAD and SU. The mere fact that your end result may have had its modest beginnings in DataCAD leaves me in awe. I could have never imagined such things 30+ years ago when I started writing DataCAD. My, how far we've come!

Highest regards,
Dave

Well, Mr. G., guess we will have to share in the mutual admiration awards category today and in this holiday season. Without you and your genius at having designed, developed, and nurtured "our" little program called DataCAD, that you painstakingly keep making better, I for one would not have the easy to use tools and ability to create the drawings that I do as a one-man office. I might still be aching from a sore back from bending over a drawing board and producing inaccurate manual drawings and pulling out my remaining hair working out the geometry for a complicated, 3D perspective drawing. Then, to have the client want the design changed and my pulling out more hair and taking days longer (as opposed to minutes with your tools) to scrub away parts of the manually prepared rendering and making changes.

So, in this holiday spirit of being thankful, the collective DataCAD community owes you a whopper of gratitude for allowing us to do what we still love doing.

Well, Mr. G., guess we will have to share in the mutual admiration awards category today and in this holiday season. Without you and your genius at having designed, developed, and nurtured "our" little program called DataCAD, that you painstakingly keep making better, I for one would not have the easy to use tools and ability to create the drawings that I do as a one-man office. I might still be aching from a sore back from bending over a drawing board and producing inaccurate manual drawings and pulling out my remaining hair working out the geometry for a complicated, 3D perspective drawing. Then, to have the client want the design changed and my pulling out more hair and taking days longer (as opposed to minutes with your tools) to scrub away parts of the manually prepared rendering and making changes.

So, in this holiday spirit of being thankful, the collective DataCAD community owes you a whopper of gratitude for allowing us to do what we still love doing.

Well said Mr. Porter!

Thank you Mr. G for producing a product that "plays nice with others" and allows me to push ahead without worrying about base drawings that lack accuracy....a sloppy set of base drawings is a nightmare for creating renderings.

Best wishes for continued success in the new year and beyond.

Robert