Topic Title

I was looking for info on metal buildings and ran across this site: http://www.olympiabuildings.com/applica ... dings.html and read the first two comments by their panel of "experts" under "Pre-engineered metal & steel buildings cost advantages". You ought to see what they said about the profession and comment back to them if you feel the need. I did and will print here if asked--

One said, "Lower price-per-square-foot churches can use a design-build contractor instead of an architect."

Another said, "With an architect, you spend days and weeks defining everything and bidding it out, and you still don't know who's the low bidder."

Yikes! I just read another expert says, "The design-build contractor's team doesn't need a separate architect or structural engineer."

Kinda hard to build a building without an Architect's signature. Hard to get the permit in any case.

Unfortunately, with a D/B contractor they can usually sign the plans using their contractor's license. That's how they get away with their claims.

My experience with packaged steel buildings is that they come with
plans and calcs stamped by a Calif. licensed engineer. Without that
no permit (at least in Kern County).

Since steel buildings do not fall
under the provisions of UBC chapter 23 Conventional Light-Frame
Construction, the Design/Build Dealer/Contractor is out of luck in
getting a permit without an Architect's or Engineer's involvement.

Other parts of the country may have differing requirements, of course.

Gene Hughes

One said, "Lower price-per-square-foot churches can use a design-build contractor instead of an architect."

Another said, "With an architect, you spend days and weeks defining everything and bidding it out, and you still don't know who's the low bidder."

Yikes! I just read another expert says, "The design-build contractor's team doesn't need a separate architect or structural engineer."

It seems they were trying to say that those specific buildings have been pre-designed by at least engineers and possibly architects. So you buy the plans/calcs stamped by the engineer and or architect. It cost less because your contractor can handle the building process without having to coordinate field changes with an architect and other design hassles as most of those bugs have been ironed out probably by the time the end builder gets the plans (we would hope). This surely saves time and money. Not so good for local engineers and architect but would they really want to get involved in a project that is really on this tight of a budget and limited design scope? Either way it's fair practice. The term design-build contractor is probably used incorrectly as the design work is done. In this case the contractor is build only and should only have to work with site conditions. I think it's poor jouralisim here that's the issue. JOGO

There's another angle here. I have encountered in this state a practice where an owner acts as the gc, subs the building frame and envelope, gets a permit, then subs the interior partitions, hvac, etc. and gets those permits. The law exempts buildings under $100k cumulative but the cumulative cost is never submited to the building dept. and once the cumulative goes over $100k, they don't attempt to enforce it because they've already granted the permit.

That sounds like a big loop hole that needs to be closed.

Here in New Jersey, the metal building mfr.'s "sealed" drawings would only qualify as "shop drawings", and would still require both full Architect's construction documents...AND the Architect's sign-off as "approved". At the same time, the State's been cracking-down on over-reliance on shop drawings by Architect's in the construction documents. "Approved" mfr.'s structural shop drawings and MPE installer's engineering layouts and calcs. are now required before the issuance of permits; which creates a problem when your construction financing kicks-in AFTER the issuance of the permits.

Some of the rural jurisdictions MIGHT allow a farmer to "self-certify" the mfr.'s drawings for an equipment shed or hay-storage, but not for any argricultural building were people "work". And the farmer would probably still need a local engineer for the concrete footings and details. ...Agricultral buildings, fences and improvements get a few breaks from the state-wide enforcement and permitting under the IBC and IRC.

And the State has narrowly-worded guidelines on when an Architect can "seal" drawings purchased by the owner, or not prepared by his own office or the Architect's direct-consultants or allied-professionals.

We usually design a pre-engineered building around the clients' needs and send the plans to our supplier. They send us stamped engineered drawings for the building and foundation. In this state, we don't need the stamped architecturals. Then again, we haven't done any churches...