What features would you like to see added to a future version of DataCAD?
#79364 by Mark Bell
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:47 pm
I think for those that use and rely on Xrefs/Self-Xrefs they are a great feature to enhance productivity when using DataCAD. Problems can arise though when the file(s) being loaded as an Xref/Self-Xref have a lot of layers. Even though DataCAD can support 32,768 layers per drawing, once a file gets over 90-100 or so layers there are noticeable lag times when switching between views and other display-based commands where reference files are used.

The current method loads the entire file (all layers) selected as the Xref/Self-Xref, even if only 1 or several layers are required as the end result. Experience shows this can dramatically slow down how the file works, even if Xref Nesting is off, due to the large number of layers that need to be sifted through to display the Xref. Breaking up source files aren't always an option either, depending on where the project is in its development. If multiple Xrefs/Self-Xrefs are needed then the slowness escalates.

Wishlist: Allow 2 options when loading Xrefs/Self-Xrefs, the current/Standard method and a Fast Load option. This would allow the same process of picking Insert/Xref or Self-Xref, then the option of Standard or FastLoad for each, or add 2 new menu options to the pull down menu leaving the existing untouched. Picking FastLoad then allows the file to be selected, then opens the RFM first rather than inserting and loading it into the drawing as per the Standard method. With the RFM open for the selected file to be inserted as a FastLoad Xref/Self-Xref, all layers for that file are listed allowing required layers to be selected, then DataCAD loads the selected layers + contents (On layers) and just the layer names for the Off layers. This means DataCAD only has to handle the selected layers with FastLoad Xrefs/Self-Xrefs rather than every layer and its contents in each file.

If a FastLoad Xref/Self-Xref then requires to turn on other layers not loaded, the RFM is opened and layer(s) that are off are selected, then their layer contents are loaded, updating the Xref/Self-Xref but still only loading the layer contents of selected (on) layers rather than every layer. A Purge Unused Layers option could also be added to the RFM to empty out any layer data no longer in use?

The above, or something similar, could be a way of maintaining functionality on larger projects whilst still using the great features of Xrefs and Self-Xrefs.
#79398 by artmanvt2000
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:45 pm
Mark,

We use xref's a lot. We have a project broken into several files, partly to allow multiple people to work on the same project. I have noticed that xref's have become slower. I have found a few tricks to increase speed of the xref's. Below are a few of them.

- Use layer management to turn of unneeded layer and drawing enties.
- Turn off hatches and solid bitmap fills when possible.
- Turn off nesting.
- Turn off Xref snapping when possible.

I hope some of these are helpful with addressing xref speed.
#79400 by Mark Bell
Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:43 am
artmanvt2000 wrote:Mark,

We use xref's a lot. We have a project broken into several files, partly to allow multiple people to work on the same project. I have noticed that xref's have become slower. I have found a few tricks to increase speed of the xref's. Below are a few of them.

- Use layer management to turn of unneeded layer and drawing enties.
- Turn off hatches and solid bitmap fills when possible.
- Turn off nesting.
- Turn off Xref snapping when possible.

I hope some of these are helpful with addressing xref speed.


Hi Arthur,

Thanks for the response. The project referred to in the post is a work in progress full 'BIM' model of the building and needs to be a single model file, at least at this stage. All of your suggestions were in place except the nesting which had inadvertently been applied to most of the self-xrefs. This was turned off but only had a minor improvement in speed. what did improve the speed dramatically was deleting all the self-xrefs which reduced the average wait time from about half an hour to a few seconds! The project is large and requires the number of layers currently in use, and this already adopts having each typical floor layer for smarts walls, doors and windows combined on a single layer per level. rather than having separate layers for each smart entity type. We've experienced this on previous projects and it appears the more layers in use, the slower the response time when self-xrefs are loaded.
The GTV's only display required layers per level and the file is regularly purged and work continued in the newer file. Xrefs/Self-xrefs are a must-have feature, especially when setting up projects. It's not sure whether the high number of smart entities is the issue or the high number of layers, so hopefully DataCAD can add this to their review checklist for future improvements.

Of interest, we completed a mid size project several years ago, again working from a full 'BIM' model for the whole documentation with the project file being about 43mB and it worked okay and was, for us, a big success in adopting this type of delivery. That file had over 60 xrefs/self-xrefs, and about 15 screens of GTV's and over 700 layers but was usable and allowed us to work efficiently. The current project file is only around 10mB or less with half the number of layers. Prior to deleting the self-xrefs the slowness impacted GTV's, CC, MSP''s, and moving layers in the LM so it appears something isn't right?...either that or my workstation is getting old!
#79402 by joshhuggins
Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:12 am
Mark Bell wrote:Thanks for the response. The project referred to in the post is a work in progress full 'BIM' model of the building and needs to be a single model file, at least at this stage. All of your suggestions were in place except the nesting which had inadvertently been applied to most of the self-xrefs. This was turned off but only had a minor improvement in speed. what did improve the speed dramatically was deleting all the self-xrefs which reduced the average wait time from about half an hour to a few seconds! The project is large and requires the number of layers currently in use, and this already adopts having each typical floor layer for smarts walls, doors and windows combined on a single layer per level. rather than having separate layers for each smart entity type. We've experienced this on previous projects and it appears the more layers in use, the slower the response time when self-xrefs are loaded.
The GTV's only display required layers per level and the file is regularly purged and work continued in the newer file. Xrefs/Self-xrefs are a must-have feature, especially when setting up projects. It's not sure whether the high number of smart entities is the issue or the high number of layers, so hopefully DataCAD can add this to their review checklist for future improvements.

Of interest, we completed a mid size project several years ago, again working from a full 'BIM' model for the whole documentation with the project file being about 43mB and it worked okay and was, for us, a big success in adopting this type of delivery. That file had over 60 xrefs/self-xrefs, and about 15 screens of GTV's and over 700 layers but was usable and allowed us to work efficiently. The current project file is only around 10mB or less with half the number of layers. Prior to deleting the self-xrefs the slowness impacted GTV's, CC, MSP''s, and moving layers in the LM so it appears something isn't right?...either that or my workstation is getting old!

You know one thing you might try is I have found that some of my co-workers would have projects that have xrefs that looked like they were self xrefs because they were looking for a file with the same name as the open drawing file but were actually xrefs who's path was different than the current drawing. So when Datacad could not find the file at that other path Datacad defaulted back to look at the current directory for a file with the same name, which would be the drawing that was open but would treat the file as an xref and not a self xref and would not be taking advantage of some of the file and memory magic that self xrefs provide over normal xrefs.

What we would do to track down these poser self xrefs is with the file closed, move the AEC file to another folder unrelated to the project, , rename the file, open the file there then look in the orphan manager and the reference manager for xrefs that should be self xrefs and then use the redefine tool to redefine the xrefs to the temp file with the new name. Once all of the self xrefs were correctly re-pathed, then we would do a Save as back to the original files name and path and things would start to work as they should after a close and save and re-opening the file.
#79405 by Mark Bell
Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:50 pm
"You know one thing you might try is I have found that some of my co-workers would have projects that have xrefs that looked like they were self xrefs because they were looking for a file with the same name as the open drawing file but were actually xrefs who's path was different than the current drawing. So when Datacad could not find the file at that other path Datacad defaulted back to look at the current directory for a file with the same name, which would be the drawing that was open but would treat the file as an xref and not a self xref and would not be taking advantage of some of the file and memory magic that self xrefs provide over normal xrefs.

What we would do to track down these poser self xrefs is with the file closed, move the AEC file to another folder unrelated to the project, , rename the file, open the file there then look in the orphan manager and the reference manager for xrefs that should be self xrefs and then use the redefine tool to redefine the xrefs to the temp file with the new name. Once all of the self xrefs were correctly re-pathed, then we would do a Save as back to the original files name and path and things would start to work as they should after a close and save and re-opening the file."

Hi Josh,

Thanks for the tip. All the xrefs and self-xrefs had their paths checked and were correct. The self-xrefs were obvious as they reflected the floor plates of the model inside the active file.

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