Use this forum to ask questions about DataCAD 20 and DataCAD LT 20.
#73807 by ORWoody
Tue May 01, 2018 10:09 pm
A while back, someone asked about "groups" in DCAD 20 and if anyone was bumping into problems with them. I had, but only minor ones back then. I am noticing now that I can draw a series of lines that are all connected, but they aren't seen as a group. At most, two or three will. A dozen lines will have three or four groups.
I hope that this gets fixed because I sure do like the groups concept.
#74148 by Jim Allen
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:13 pm
Have you noticed that stringline dimensions are not grouped anymore either. Some of my stringlines I did earlier in the drawing are still a group. But not dimensions I add that way today.

Also, I wish I could move symbols by their insertion point like we used to. I hope there is a good reason for these changes unless they were not meant to have happened.
#74149 by David A. Giesselman
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:40 pm
Jim Allen wrote:Have you noticed that stringline dimensions are not grouped anymore either. Some of my stringlines I did earlier in the drawing are still a group. But not dimensions I add that way today.

Also, I wish I could move symbols by their insertion point like we used to. I hope there is a good reason for these changes unless they were not meant to have happened.

Jim:

Please check the following key in the [General] section of the INI file:

Automatically Group Dimensions=TRUE

As for moving Symbols by their insertion point, I don't see why you can't still do this. Perhaps I'm missing something. Are you Object Snapping to the symbol? Do you have Fast Sym toggled ON in the Object Snap options?

Dave
#74150 by Jim Allen
Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:52 pm
Automatically Group Dimensions=TRUE is in my .ini. So I checked in another file and it is grouping them. For some reason, it does not group them in the file I have been working on. Now I'm not sure if I've seen it in other files. Sorry, I should have checked that.

The symbol issue is that you can't select them by area or fence by just enclosing the insertion point. I think it was brought up on this forum before. Now you have to enclose the whole symbol.

Jim
#74151 by joshhuggins
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:37 pm
Jim Allen wrote:The symbol issue is that you can't select them by area or fence by just enclosing the insertion point. I think it was brought up on this forum before. Now you have to enclose the whole symbol.
You have to use F1 Crossing to pick by just the insertion point when using Area/Fence by default now. There was a change back in v16 that kind of started the changing on how symbol insertion points are handled for Area/Fence.

v.16 release notes wrote:9) The manner in which symbols are selected when using "Fence" with "Crossing" enabled has been adjusted. Previously, the symbol would only be selected if the insertion point was within the Fence boundary, even with "Crossing" turned on. Now, the symbol will be selected if the Fence boundary crosses any part of the symbol, similar to the way Area/Crossing selection works.

[General]
New Crossing Fence=TRUE
When absent or TRUE(default), DataCAD uses the new Fence/Crossing selection method on symbols. When FALSE, DataCAD uses the previous Fence/Crossing selection method on symbols.


This was a step in the right direction but this led to an issue where Area/Fence with crossing selections were made and selecting symbols who's insertion point were away from the bulk of the symbols entities and symbols would be unexpectedly selected sometimes without the users knowledge because the "boundary" of a symbol was crossed. There was some back and forth here on the forum on what would be the preferred method and it was settled on that symbols would be selected for Area/Fence by either of the following methods.

- Encompass the entire symbol and insertion point within the selection
- Use crossing to cross any part of the symbol, including the insertion point.

You can see if changing the line to New Crossing Fence=FALSE and see if that will work for you. Not sure if that INI option is still valid but I would guess it is. I think the above is accurate, someone please correct me if I have something wrong. Hope that helps shed some light on things.
#74152 by Jim Allen
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:53 pm
This gets confusing when I can't remember for sure how it used to work. I thought I used to be able to select symbols by area by just enclosing the insertion points. Now I have to have crossing on and I don't like that. I get things I don't want to be selected when things are crowded. Maybe I just have a faulty memory:D

Thanks for the input, Josh.
#74153 by joshhuggins
Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:58 pm
I tried setting that INI value to FALSE and it did not help so that might be an obsolete entry now. Dave will have to chime in on if there is an option to go back to the way it used to work, sorry Jim.
#74157 by Paul Nida
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:06 am
Jim Allen wrote:Have you noticed that stringline dimensions are not grouped anymore either. Some of my stringlines I did earlier in the drawing are still a group. But not dimensions I add that way today.

Also, I wish I could move symbols by their insertion point like we used to. I hope there is a good reason for these changes unless they were not meant to have happened.


Grouping is hit or miss now, whether you are talking dimensions or drawing lines. Like you said in the past dimensions entered using stringline were grouped now I find that if I enter a string of 10 dimensions some part of them will be grouped and the rest will not. Drawing lines contiguously without using the right button would keep them as a group. Not any more, Some or all may or may not be grouped.

As to the symbol insertion point issue, the change helps some and hurts others, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And when people are happy with the way things work they have nothing to complain about so they don't say anything.
#74172 by ROBERT PENN
Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:09 pm
Jim Allen wrote:This gets confusing when I can't remember for sure how it used to work. I thought I used to be able to select symbols by area by just enclosing the insertion points. Now I have to have crossing on and I don't like that. I get things I don't want to be selected when things are crowded. Maybe I just have a faulty memory:D

Thanks for the input, Josh.


I agree with you on this one Jim!
I am finding it frustrating now that the symbol doesn't get picked up now when I pick by area or fence when the insertion point is within the area and it doesn't get picked.
Can't we revert back to the way it was? The crossing command does not work for my liking as the crossing picks up other entities that I don't want!

( I'm trying to be another squeaky wheel!!!)
#74173 by ROBERT PENN
Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:46 pm
What I am finding is that where a symbol has no text attributes I can pick up the symbol, (if the whole of the symbol is within the fence/area) but when there are text attributes it won't pick up the symbol unless you include the extents of the text attributes. This is problematic when the text attributes are hidden and you can't visually see them on the screen! For one client I use the text attributes to add information to the symbol so the client can get the information in the background as metadata information, but that information is not seen on the screen, it gets extracted.
#74175 by David A. Giesselman
Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:17 am
ROBERT PENN wrote:What I am finding is that where a symbol has no text attributes I can pick up the symbol, (if the whole of the symbol is within the fence/area) but when there are text attributes it won't pick up the symbol unless you include the extents of the text attributes. This is problematic when the text attributes are hidden and you can't visually see them on the screen! For one client I use the text attributes to add information to the symbol so the client can get the information in the background as metadata information, but that information is not seen on the screen, it gets extracted.

Corrected for the next update. Non-visible text attributes, within a symbol, will no longer be considered with Area and Fence selection.

Dave
#74176 by David A. Giesselman
Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:34 am
ROBERT PENN wrote:
Jim Allen wrote:This gets confusing when I can't remember for sure how it used to work. I thought I used to be able to select symbols by area by just enclosing the insertion points. Now I have to have crossing on and I don't like that. I get things I don't want to be selected when things are crowded. Maybe I just have a faulty memory:D

Thanks for the input, Josh.


I agree with you on this one Jim!
I am finding it frustrating now that the symbol doesn't get picked up now when I pick by area or fence when the insertion point is within the area and it doesn't get picked.
Can't we revert back to the way it was? The crossing command does not work for my liking as the crossing picks up other entities that I don't want!

( I'm trying to be another squeaky wheel!!!)

For the next update, I've added the following new INI key to the [Symbols] section of the INI file:

Insertion Point Considered For Area/Fence=FALSE

Setting this to TRUE will allow symbols to be selected with Area/Fence by their insertion point.

Dave

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